Comments on: Can someone explain it to me?

By: Lisbon

Lisbon — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:11:20 +0000

I think they don’t wanted to exclude the people who are living in Encarnacao, Moscavide, and Oriente. I don’t know, but maybe it’s a place of rich and influental people. It’s always like that. All around the world.

By: Daniel Barradas

Daniel Barradas — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:44:25 +0000

Land speculation.

When the airport is gone what do you think they will put there?

Probably condos, schools, infrastructures (maybe an hospital?).

Besides I do think that they will connect that to Campo Grande just like they are doing with the red line and Saldanha and S. Sebastião.

It’s a matter of time and ROI.

By: Pedro Pinheiro

Pedro Pinheiro — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:30:26 +0000

Daniel, so how do you explain the current investment in the Encarnação – Airport line? All underground, what will be the cost? What’s the ratio on that one, also considering it will only be finished in two or three years time?

By: Daniel Barradas

Daniel Barradas — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:11:28 +0000

I don’t know if it would be very cheap like you say.

I do know that there’s a lot less population getting served hence the worst people/cost ratio. Bottom line, most of us don’t need to go to the airport at least not as often as we go to other places. The only ones who need it are those who work there and foreigners/people catching a plane.

If it were made just to serve the airport you would have no long term guaranteed return. Example: the airport is going away and it will be a while before you have people living there.

If they do it like it’s being done it will help boost land sale prices from the current airport and it will be ready about the time you have people living where the airport is now. And in Portugal… land speculation rules.

Just my two cents

By: Pedro Pinheiro

Pedro Pinheiro — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:25:07 +0000

Daniel, but it would have been VERY cheap compared to anything else. If the country had (laudable) concerns like yours in mind, we wouldn’t have built so many stadiums for the Euro 2004. Take the Leiria stadium, how many games were played there during the Euro? It’s still unfinished…

By: Daniel Barradas

Daniel Barradas — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:59:36 +0000

My take (and I haven’t read all comments before):

Not enough people/cost ratio.

As for the rest? Why Loures, Caneças, etc don’t have subway yet?
Loures has been talked about since I came to live where I am about 14 years ago. But we have a monopoly going on here with Barraqueiro (who bought the Rodoviaria competitor).

We’re a very, very small country.

By: Guillaume

Guillaume — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:21:37 +0000

This is an interesting question you’re posing, ppinheiro. I didn’t had time to read all the comments, but my funny guess is “taxi lobbies”?

Now, more seriously, I’ve got another question: How come they took more than 10 years just to decide where a new international airport should be built? That is not good for Portugal’s growth and global competitivity.

How come, they still don’t have plans to build a seriously big international harbour, like the ones at Barcelona, or Valencia? Do you know how much sea traffic of commodities and resources pass off our shores without EVER stopping by? Cuz we don’t have a decent harbour to propose to them??!!! Do you know how many goods come to PT from ES by road, after ship unloading in some decent ES harbour? (I don’t know them myself, but I’m getting really scared if NO ONE in PT ever answered these questions).

How come they still don’t have plans to build some really effective power plants (I’m talking nuclear here – I’m from a physics background, and I know I have to take the risk and live nearby one)?! We’re importing WAY more energy than we produce, we’re totally power-dependent – THIS IS VERY BAD in the next years to come – just a feeling I have … .

Why aren’t these issues, SO STRATEGIC, brought about more often by politicians, and the media? Are they all morons? Is it just because the commitment goes beyond the scope of their 4-year-political-warrant? Is this a land of political imbeciles I live in? Other countries have their political imbeciles, yes, but they come with big airports, big harbours and lots of power plants (including nuclear ones).

Well, sorry for unloading all that on you all, but I really feel those are important issues that every Portuguese should think about…

By: Carlos Rodrigues

Carlos Rodrigues — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:52:26 +0000

You are seeing the map in 2D. In real-life, that path is all but flat. It would be easier to build a tunnel.

But, the real issue here is financing. These expensive projects get *a lot* of funding from the EU. A line connecting an airport to a major railway station (now one of the busiest in europe) and going through populated areas is in a better position to get funding.

By: Pedro Pinheiro

Pedro Pinheiro — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:45:18 +0000

Nuno, I can make a friendly wager over that both the airport will still be working in 7 years time and that the line between Encarnação and the airport will probably cost more than what I proposed, with the disadvantage that it will not serve Terminal 2.
Regardless of that, my question was: why didn’t they build the line from Campo Grande in the past 15 years? I explicitly stated that I’m not against the new line, just wondering why it wasn’t built. I wasn’t stating an opinion, I was asking a question (I concede that it was asked from a skeptical viewpoint), and I was really curious if someone would appear telling us they knew why.

By: Nuno

Nuno — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 12:23:22 +0000

Well…the answer to you question is written in a report somewhere about the metro planning, which started long time ago and I’m sure it had many public hearings. It is not just about the ICAO rules it is about the viability of the project. For example, the airport is going to leave that location in about 7 years and you propose to build a line just to serve it…

By: Pedro Pinheiro

Pedro Pinheiro — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:52:17 +0000

Nuno, I didn’t say it was an easy and simple task. I asked a question, which I think I’m entitled to ask because the Metro uses public funds, and I (like all of us here) contribute to those funds through our taxes. Surface metro access to airports is a reality in many countries, and I’m sure the vertical component of a surface rail line where I proposed could fit the ICAO rules pretty comfortably.

By: Nuno

Nuno — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:45:16 +0000

I agree with Miguel and Bruno. To choose a path for a subway is not a easy and simple task. To me your option doesn’t make any sense. By the way I’m a civil engineer.

By: Pedro Pinheiro

Pedro Pinheiro — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:36:40 +0000

Andre, it’s just the old panem et circenses from the old times, but with cellphones and football.

By: Pedro Melo

Pedro Melo — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:47:15 +0000

My guess:

* the redline links the Airport with the Gare do Oriente (the main hub of public transportation: train, bus, metro, and in the future the high-speed train lines);
* the area the red line crosses has a lot of people, one of the major “sleeping” sections of Lisbon;
* the blue extension, would be cheap and probably easy to build, but would not serve nothing but the airport;
* in the future, the red line could even be extended like the blue line, connecting to Campo Grande.

that’s my best guess.

Best regards,

By: andrezero

andrezero — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:32:53 +0000

sure! I just like to fool around a little whenever I see a good person stressing out “what they could have done”…

please do care! but don’t forget there are too many !#$!”#$ people just letting go of their money and not fighting, not caring.

so it’s like the real millions are coming from people who don’t care… like they’re buying a “do what you wish, as long as you leave me alone, feed me tv, and bring home me the euro cup” situation